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31 comments:
It will be an especially strong movie with his reputation of creating, writing and directing strong women parts. Hopefully in will be without the angst although a modified cliff hanger with movie ending with Killing Joke would be good.
I would prefer a complete lack of "Killing Joke" references/adaptations. To me, that was DC's second biggest mistake after COIE.
Agreed.
I disagree with Anonymous and (I assume) Chris, at least as far as a complete lack of "Killing Joke." I'm fine with having no reference to it in this first Batgirl movie, but the story was what led to her transformation into Oracle, one of the most inspirational characters in comics, particularly for the physically disabled.
As to this cover, Ross, I think this is among your best. Given your text, I would have expected a Batgirl/Wonder Woman team-up, but then we wouldn't have seen this. I can't even tell which (if either) heroine was facing the swordsman in the original art; it completely looks like a unit piece, drawn as shown. Even the positioning of the Dark Duo is almost perfectly balanced (I'd prefer to see them moved to the right just a little, but that's just me).
Bob, Batman was facing the swordsmen in a Dustin Nguyen image.
Not bad Ross you'll not only hit STF #1900 in about ten days but will hit #2000 about a month and a half before DC reaches #2000... Congratulations
DC reaches 2000 on what? 1900 is ready to go and It's one of my favorite covers I have ever made. Hopefully folks will like it.
@Bob Greenwade: I have to agree with Anon and Chris. Making Babs a paraplegic was really just for gratuitous shock value and sales boosting, for the most part. Creating an inspirational role model for the physically handicapped? Merely a post-facto rationalization.
But, if DC Films goes ahead with the wheelchair-bound cybernetics genius, anyway, then I hope they at least moderate the on-screen depiction of the incident. Like, the Joker broadsiding her motor scooter on her way to work (or something equally less graphic by comparison).
DC had all but given up on Batgirl before COIE. In fact she was one of the characters given to Wolfman to kill in COIE. She was written off after Killing Joke and it was only because of the Ostrainders that she returned to prominence in the DC universe. While I was hesitant to accepted her back as Batgirl during Nu52 Gail did a good job with her but after she left the character turned to crap again. She is a little better in the new series but it is still not Batgirl as she should be.
@Cary - Yes, it was all after-the-fact, what-do-we-do-with-her-now writing that made her into Oracle, a character that I found both inspirational (even with only minor mobility problems) and intriguing. The incident with Joker was for shock value, aimed not only at the readership but also at Babs' father (as was practically everything Joker did in that story). That doesn't take away the fact that, as Oracle, Babs was inspirational and intriguing.
I understand that I'm probably part of a relatively small minority of fans that is mostly made up of paraplegics themselves. Still, I'd feel encouraged if we were to see some early hints at the movie version being a computer (not cybernetics) whiz.
Regarding Barbara Gordon/Batgirl/Oracle...
Keep in mind that the character was originally created as a way to hopefully prop up sagging ratings for the Adam West Batman TV show.... The creators at DC took what they essentially were stuck with and made her into a compelling character in her own right which is a testament to the talented creators at DC comics.
Looking back however, it seems clear that when she was first elected to Congress in the early 70s that DC effectively intended to retire the character. Perhaps their thinking was that the character had served its purpose and had simply run her course. Fortunately the Barbara Gordon version of Batgirl was revived with a pair of team-ups with Superman in the mid-70s (favorites of mine in at the time). Then she did a series of team-ups with Robin in Batman Family (also favorites of mine). However, despite making guest appearances here and there, she never really rose above the level of supporting player--not that there's anything wrong with that. Stories need compelling supporting characters.
When The Killing Joke came along, the powers that be at DC comics felt that the character was so unimportant that she could basically be tossed away as a plot point for a prestige project. At the time, I felt that it was out of character for someone who had shown Barbara's competence in the past to be taken out so easily. I have to agree that it struck me as something done mostly for shock value and was sort of a waste. However, I admit that I didn't think of it as a great loss of a character with great potential.
Then along came Kim Yale and John Ostrander and their transformation of Barbara into Oracle. Once again, talented creators took what they were stuck with a created a compelling character. In my opinion, they transformed Barbara Gordon into a much more unique and compelling character. She went from being a female version of Batman which wasn't even an original idea when she debuted in 1967 and became a superheroic librarian who turned her ability to access information better than anyone else into her "superpower". Talk about "knowledge is power".... Amazing!
While I sympathies with those readers who preferred the "old" Barbara in her Batgirl identity, I reject the argument that Batgirl is a more interesting, original or even heroic character than Oracle. By restoring Barbara Gordon to her Batgirl persona, DC has destroyed a unique and interesting character (Oracle) in favor for another female version of Batman. I fail to see how this is an improvement.
@BG: po-tay-to/po-tah-to.
@Sonofjack: Not so much an improvement as a refreshing (and long overdue) reboot.
Cary Comic, I'm not sure why you consider the transformation of Barbara Gordon from a wholly unique and interesting character (not to mention a role model for people with mobility issues) like Oracle BACK into a spandex wearing female version of Batman either "refreshing" or "long overdue" since there are at least five other characters that fit that description that I can think of off the top of my head. However, that's okay. Your feelings are your feelings, and you are not required to justify them to me or anyone else.
By the same token, Bob Greenwade and I have expressed our preference for Oracle. Why do you feel the need to challenge that? Do you think that you are going to change our minds? Does it bother you that much that we disagree with you? You've already expressed your preference. We get it. I did not direct any of my earlier comments towards you. Kindly show me that same courtesy.
@Sonofajck: I've dealt with idiots like Carycomic before. Trust me! You can never out-stubborn them. And when they goad you into prolonging an arguement, they win and the rest of us lose.
So, just humor the idiot and let him have the last word!
Killing Joke? Heck no.
Amen, Mateus, Amen!
I've just read Adventure Comics #495, in which a rather young Babs (at 'summer camp' in Smallville during Superboy's time of residence there) briefly acquired superhuman powers, and used the name of 'Mighty Girl'.
Fun!
Hm, I wouldn't say that Crisis on Infinite Earth was DC's biggest mistake. Their biggest mistake was the New 52.
But I'm not against her as Oracle, though not having her being paralysed by the Joker.
@Mateus: I'll go so far as to say it was their 3rd biggest mistake. And that they, at least, had good intentions with "Flashpoint." But, that's a very grudging concession!
Nope, their third biggest mistake wasn't Crisis on Infinite Earths, but in fact Identity Crisis.
Of course, COIE caused problems but it's not one of their biggest mistake since it was responsible for the start of the Modern Age of Comic Books and if it weren't for that, then the Bronze Age would've continued.
The true Bronze Age was the first ten years _after_ COIE. And "Identity Crisis" was their 4th biggest mistake.
@Anonymous: LOL! Now, who's being a stubborn idiot?
No, the Bronze Age happened from 1970 to 1986.
I repeat what I said: Crisis on Infinite Earths was from being one of DC's biggest mistakes. You're only saying that because you hate it.
It's one of the well-known stories that kickstarted the Modern Age of Comics. Sure it had problems, but it's far from being one of DC's biggest mistakes.
He is. He's just stating COIE was one of DC's biggest mistakes as in it completely ruined DC forever, when it didn't. Of course it caused continuity problems but at least it didn't cause a huge ruckus like the New 52 did.
You know... It's not often that I'm the voice of reason, but arguing about which of DC's "mistakes" was the biggest is kind of pointless. There is no definitive correct answer. Ultimately it all comes down to individual tastes.
Besides, everyone knows that DC's biggest mistake was cancelling Sugar and Spike....
My main point about Oracle earlier is that even though I agree that paralyzing Barbara Gordon in the first place was very shortsighted on the part of DC, Kim Yale and John Ostrander took that unpleasant fact and used it to make Barbara (in my opinion) a better character. To me that is an example of superior storytelling and infinitely better than an endless series of reboots.
I'd much rather see creators write their way out of a problem than to have them simply blow everything up and start over. Others may disagree.
On a personal note, it was stupid of me to suggest that another writer shouldn't feel free to address me in their comments.
And finally, to Simreeve, I bought Adventure Comics #495 today, and you are right, it IS a fun comic. Frankly, I wish they wrote more comics like that today.
Sonofjack Well said...
"And finally, to Simreeve, I bought Adventure Comics #495 today, and you are right, it IS a fun comic. Frankly, I wish they wrote more comics like that today."
I took another look last night and I'd got the number mixed up: I was actually talking about #453. Oops!
Glad to read that you enjoyed the one you got, though...
It' the same comic, Simreeve. I noticed this morning that we both wrote the wrong number. When I wrote my comment I wrote the number based on your earlier comment.
*far from being one of DC's biggest mistakes.
The true Bronze Age was post-1986.
And COIE was indisputably DC's Numero Uno mistake.
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