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25 comments:
i also saw/read that article and concur whole heatedly....
the entire issue was filled with similar other "lost" stories/proposals and was a great read......
you continue to do your usual amazing work daily on our behalf......
Thank you, Ross.....
I agree Back Issue is THE best comics-related magazine, well done by Michael Eury and all, but my frustration is the untold stories! As mentioned, many of these ideas were interesting and I would want them, but they're not available! As is the case with Alex Ross' FF! This is another great cover, characters, art, and story idea are all great!
Now there's a cover idea I doubt MARVEL would ever use, the FF not shown kicking butt. Back Issue, Alter Ego, Starlog & a few others have usually been real treats for comic fans because of interviews and info we get of the "bigger picture".
It's also nice to know that some fans, while never breaking thru to the pro level that Roy Thomas, E. N. Bridwell and some have gotten to, have still made a mark for themselves being recognized by both fans and pros. Take an extra bow Ross. Being appreciated by fans world wide ain't nothing to sneeze at.
Evidently, this is a prequel to STF #1551.
Seriously, though: you have a legitimate point about unused potential story ideas. But, my inner skeptic says that your expressed hope for Marvel Studios is like hoping a two year-old won't be terrible.
A case of "ain't gonna happen."
On a completely different note, am I wrong or are there TWO Batmen missing now? The original from Earth 1 that disappeared three years ago per Arrow, and the Batman of Earth 38 that was friends with the Superman of that version.
At least it sounds like PETTY exile. XD
Tobor: You're wrong on two counts. One, the Arrowverse Earth-38 Batman was, as far as I know, never missing. Two, Earth-38 and Earth-1 are now merged (along with Black Lightning's Earth, never identified by number), so even if I'm wrong about the first point they're now the same Batman anyway.
Ross: For the story of this cover, there's clearly something screwy going on here. Firestorm teamed up with the thing as recently as #2707 (having first met in 2010 during the MTIO title), and I also see the Fantastic Four with him in #1550; in neither case does the problem shown here seem to be any trouble. So, I tend to think that someone is manipulating things... and Doctor Doom would be at the top of my suspect list.
Following that, I think this would make a really fun story. I could envision Drs. Richards and Stein working together -- though possibly by video-conference -- to repair the damage, while the others (led by Sue) locate and shut down whatever Doom's using to make a mess of things. If I was writing it, I'd have an un-powered Ron Raymond make a key difference in the latter mission, proving to himself that he's a hero at heart even when he's not super.
So, besides a near-seamless visual, you have a really well-done bit of work here, Ross.
Could be a flashback story to when they first met, before those other covers by Ross?
Bob Greenwade said...
Tobor: You're wrong on two counts. One, the Arrowverse Earth-38 Batman was, as far as I know, never missing. Two, Earth-38 and Earth-1 are now merged (along with Black Lightning's Earth, never identified by number), so even if I'm wrong about the first point they're now the same Batman anyway.
Bob that's the thing:
* No hero character on Earth 38 and Earth 1 were duplicated. No Star Labs, Flash, Arrow, Firestorm, Supergirl, Superman, Martian Manhunter.
* Supergirl erroneously said to Batwoman that their cousins were friends. Supergirl was on Earth 1 at the time during Elseworlds. There has been no Supergirl or Superman established on Earth 1. Kate would have no idea what Supergirl was talking about.
*We never met Earth 38 Batman or Batwoman (if there was one). We have no idea what their status was before the Earth do over. Earth 1 Batman disappeared 3 years ago. No trace since then.
We have no idea if this Bruce Wayne will ever be shown..or if he'll be the Earth 1 or Earth 38 version packaged as the new Earth Prime version.
Tobor: I think you need to go rewatch Elseworlds, and other places where Batman was referenced. Supergirl told Batwoman that on her Earth (Earth-38) their cousins had been friends, though they'd suffered a falling-out. This was to encourage Kate that all may not be lost for Earth-1's Bruce.
Also, there was a period of rather frequent references to Earth-38's Batman on Supergirl, independent of anything on Earth-1. In particular, Win and James had a conversation that included the above-mentioned falling-out. (Batman wasn't named directly, probably because the bosses at DC didn't allow it, but Win did make a gesture indicating the Bat-ears.)
So while no on-screen character was duplicated between Earths 1 and 38, it's clear the the off-screen "hero character" of Batman was.
Thus, if Batman's still missing on the new Earth-Prime, he'll almost certainly be most like Earth-1's version. We'll probably get at least a few clues on tomorrow's episodes of Batwoman and (possibly) Supergirl, and more as those two series progress through the rest of the season. (Not that we'd ever really know the difference anyway, of course; like I said, Batman has only ever been off-screen in the Arrowverse.)
We may eventually get Batman, though, on the Batwoman series finale -- provided, of course, that the DC/WB bosses allow it (which I think they should). I don't think the part will be played by Alain Moussi, Kevin Conroy, Ben Affleck, or Robert Pattinson, either.
Bob Greenwade said...
Tobor: I think you need to go rewatch Elseworlds, and other places where Batman was referenced. Supergirl told Batwoman that on her Earth (Earth-38) their cousins had been friends, though they'd suffered a falling-out. This was to encourage Kate that all may not be lost for Earth-1's Bruce.
Bob, I rechecked it. Arrow, Hour 2 Elseworlds, 19 minutes in...Kara left Ollie and Barry on the roof. Kate is talking to Kara about turning this building into a real estate development firm, this is me hijacking his office.
Kara: My cousin's actually friends with Bruce. Um, well, frenemies. Do you ever wonder if trying to keep his private life from the public eye just got to be too much for him and he broke?
At that point Kate didn't know Kara was Supergirl or that she was from a different Earth. Kara knew nothing about Kate being Batwoman. So amendment needed:
* Kara erroneously said to Kate that their cousins were friends. Supergirl was on Earth 1 at the time during Elseworlds. There has been no Supergirl or Superman established on Earth 1. Kate would have no idea what Kara was talking about. Kara's Clark didn't know Kate's Bruce on Earth 1.
And yes, Batman was referenced, but not by name. No mention if a Batwoman was on Earth 38. We never saw Batman -38 at any gathering or crisis. We don't even know if he was still alive on Earth 38 before the antimatter wave hit.
So now, does Earth Prime even have a living Bruce Wayne that is also Batman? Unknown. Will he be a revised Earth 1 version? Any characteristics of the Earth 38 version in him or is that version fully gone? Unknown.
Bob Greenwade said...
"Tobor: You're wrong on two counts. Two, Earth-38 and Earth-1 are now merged (along with Black Lightning's Earth, never identified by number), so even if I'm wrong about the first point they're now the same Batman anyway."
Unless there's a cosmic anomaly, like Power Girl's [admittedly sometimes confused] existence in DC comics' post-Crisis unified reality and then the continued existence of more-or-less that same version even after Flashpoint (when she met [the also-continuing pre-FP version of] Harley Quinn several times...) despite the fact that the "official" post-Flashpoint PG was a recent immigrant from the post-FP version of E2...
_______________________________________________
Bob Greenwade said...
"Ross: For the story of this cover, there's clearly something screwy going on here. Firestorm teamed up with the thing as recently as #2707 (having first met in 2010 during the MTIO title), and I also see the Fantastic Four with him in #1550; in neither case does the problem shown here seem to be any trouble. So, I tend to think that someone is manipulating things... and Doctor Doom would be at the top of my suspect list.
Following that, I think this would make a really fun story. I could envision Drs. Richards and Stein working together -- though possibly by video-conference -- to repair the damage, while the others (led by Sue) locate and shut down whatever Doom's using to make a mess of things. If I was writing it, I'd have an un-powered Ron Raymond make a key difference in the latter mission, proving to himself that he's a hero at heart even when he's not super."
I'd like to read that comic...
Bobby and Tobor Supes has said 'Batman' on one live show I kunow of; Lois and Clark with Dean Cain. Why can't it be done now?
No duplicates tween Earths 1 and 38? cept for Bats? Weird. You'd think there'd be a Harrison Wells there. He's been everywhere else. Maybe just not at a Star Labs on Earth 38. All those Harry Wells mixed in one for this new Earth? good luck. Or is Nash gonna be the only Wells there is?
and YES I am not a robot. Do androids count?
@HHH: DC has been withholding stuff from the Arrowverse so it doesn't conflict with their plans for the movies. That's why Brandon Routh has been playing Ray Palmer instead of the originally-planned Ted Kord; DC was going back and forth at that time about whether they were going to try a Blue Beetle movie. That's also the reason it took so long for Superman to make a personal appearance on Supergirl. I think they relaxed that for the Flash in '14 because, at the time, there were no specific plans for a solo Flash movie; it's a similar thing with Cyborg on Doom Patrol. And I have no idea why the rule was suspended for Titans.
The stated logic behind this is that audiences might become confused if there are two different versions of a character going on at the same time. That's not as unreasonable as I once thought; I do know a few people for whom that might be true. After all, look at how many think "Baby Yoda" on The Mandalorian is actually Yoda. But just as Star Wars fans can set things straight for those people, superhero fans can clarify things for anyone who gets these things mixed up. I think DC's starting to see that, too, which is part of why we can have two different actors playing two different versions of Superman or the Flash side-by-side.
As for Earth-38's Harrison Wells, maybe there was one, but he was never specified. Maybe it's Nash. Hopefully something about that will be explained in coming episodes of The Flash; I'm still keen to find out what happened with Harry and Jesse.
To all the predecessors it may concern:
Like I said up top? COIE should just erase the entire CW multiverse for good!
Anonymous said...
To all the predecessors it may concern:
Like I said up top? COIE should just erase the entire CW multiverse for good!
January 19, 2020 at 12:05 PM
@Anon, No thank you! Parallel Worlds have been used in TV stories at least since the early 1960s with Twilight Zone and Star Trek and Dark Shadows. Fans have no problem with telling Spock from bearded Spock or where each is from.
Multi Earths can do great human drama also- look at Barry's experience on Earth 2 with his family's counterparts there. Also, look at the Black Siren and her change.
Problem I see is how new timelines can screw things up so much. Pre and post Flashpoint timelines are so different..BUT we have never been in the original timeline to begin with.
Eobard killed Barry's mom and Harrison Wells & his wife. It created a new corrupted time line. Eobard said the Star Lab machine was to go on line a few years later with it working correctly. He created a new timeline that never got corrected.
Possible best solution: use video games to teach lessons like parallel worlds. Movie audiences go back and spend a Billion dollars these days. That's a LOT of people going back to see a movie more than once.
Video games can get people educated and comfortable with parallel worlds.
BG: pI think DC's starting to see that, too, which is part of why we can have two different actors playing two different versions of Superman or the Flash side-by-side.
I go with that but Flash has done this since first season. Look how many Flashes have been around and how many Earths were introduced. Flash even explained everything on first year Supergirl. The fans understand. Took this long for the suits? yechh.
@det_Tobor: I don't know about Anon. But, I, for one, never had any problem with the multiple Earth gimmick. Just with the "human drama" overpowering the action-adventure element. Take away the latter, and all you get is a bunch of sci-fi versions of a prime-time soap opera!
Which I do have a problem with...intolerably and unapologetically so.
@Carycomic That makes complete sense. Problem is how to balance writing and story telling so that it's not just a "video game" of events only against the other end of soap opera overtaking superhero actions.
Remember the 50s Superman? Straight stories with very little of human interaction of the main characters. The original Star Trek was able to do it and it shows even today.
Two minutes into a scene and you want to know what happens next. That's writing acting and directing.
Yeah, but the Fifties Superman never experienced a hiatus of thirteen years like STAR TREK did. So, again, too little interaction is better than too much.
?? Cary what 13 year hiatus are you talking about?
Tobor's right, Cary. It was more a three-year hiatus between STAR TREK:TOS and STAR TREK:TAS. Then, about six more between the cartoon and the first feature film. But, the total amount of real-time hardly adds up to 13!
@Anon: My point is...prior to the post-COIE reboot, Superman was continuously published. Whereas, there were long intervals between STAR TREK spin-offs and feature-films. Greater in-story continuity among the latter? Undeniably. But, they still never let the soap opera-style interaction overpower the action/adventure elements. So, I like to think the ST franchise learned a valuable lesson from the pre-COIE comics, in that regard.
"Here endeth the lesson."
---Sean Connery
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