I'm still waiting to see a proper live action Riddler. The Frank Gorshin/John Astin versions were perfect for the campy TV version of Batman, but I was disappointed to see a pink haired Jim Carrey hammily channeling those performances in Batman Forever rather than something closer to the comics. I liked Paul Dano in The Batman, but there they went way too far in the other direction. Yes, there were clues and a question mark or two, but the villain seemed more like something from a Saw movie than any Riddler story I've ever read. Cory Michael Smith in Gotham had his moments, but the villain never felt fully formed to me. Let's hope we eventually see a version that strikes the right balance between intellect, criminality, obsession and showmanship.
they haven’t found a writer who gives the character a fair chance, in movies it’s also the director who makes or ruins a performance
ReplyDeletebut at least D.D. would know when he’s lying….
The Riddler voiced by John Glover (opposite the Batman voiced by the late, great Kevin Conroy) was the best animated version I've seen since Ted Knight's handling of the entire Gotham City Rogues' Gallery in the Filmation cartoons of 1968-9!
ReplyDeleteAs for a non-campy live-action Edward Nygma? Cory Michael Smith from "Gotham" came impressively close enough to satisfy me. :-)
I agree with Cary on both counts.
ReplyDeleteHe didn't start out to be a criminal but he couldn't find justice when he needed it. That does happen and it's called revenge. My vote goes with th animated version as well.
ReplyDeleteRoss,shame you can't do more. Seeing an etch-a-sketch ad by Doctor Doom would be fun.
Daredevil is coming back and so are a lot of others...now if we can get some really good writers to do it. I am a fan of the current Superman & Lois, but what made them able to escape being cancelled??
ReplyDeleteReminds me...suppose Riddler takes on Dr Doom to prove his worth to the doc for tech or info or treasure ??
Frank Gorshin defined the Riddler. Before him, Edward Nygma was barely a footnote. He had appeared in only three Batman stories in almost twenty years. Gorshin made him into a leading member of Batman's rogues gallery. Every Riddler since has been a weak imitation at best.
ReplyDelete@Bob Buethe: must permanently beg to differ. That's like saying apples are a weak imitation of oranges!
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ReplyDeleteOutstanding.
ReplyDeleteRiddler is a character representative of the 50s/60s era Batman it is tough to make that a serious modern gimmick without going too far into the unrecognizable like Dano's performance. Same for Penguin, although the attempts to recast him as a crime-boss in the modern era - best represented in "The Batman" movie have been solid, but to really make it work you'd have to dispense with alot of the Pengiun's "trademark look" - the top hat, the umbrellas, etc. And make his appearance less cartoony.
ReplyDeleteThat's why Batman's real top 4 are Joker, Two-Face, Scarecrow, and Catwoman. Or substitute Ra's for Selina while she is on the side of Angels, but should only be used for epic tales.
I generally think of Batman's Big Five: Joker, Riddler, Penguin, Catwoman, and Two-Face. But against them, there's no shame in being second-tier: Mr. Freeze, Scarecrow, Ra's al Ghul, Clayface, Killer Croc, et al.
ReplyDelete@Other Bob: You're correct about Gorshin putting Riddler on the map, but I have to agree with Anon@7:27; the Glover and Smith versions were completely different takes on the character from what Frank did. Glover's animated Riddler was, in fact, what I consider to be as definitive as Conroy's Batman and Hamill's Joker.
ReplyDeleteA virtually immortal egotist like Ra's Al Ghul would probably describe even the Joker as being second tier compared to him! How did Talia's old man once put it?
ReplyDelete"While the Dark Knight concentrates on gangsters and gaudy madmen, he overlooks the true evil-doers of this world."
This looks like a job for Adolescent Radioactive Spam-busting Hamsters.
ReplyDeleteGot one for you Ross, since you are a big fan of the Bronze Age version of the team, have you ever considered doing a team-up of the Golden-Age versions of Daredevil and the Black Widow? Be an interesting take. Heck you can even do a team of Stan Lee appropriated characters from the Golden Age besides these two:
ReplyDeleteCaptain Marvel
Ghost Rider (that one might be tough to fit in)
The Vision
Ka-Zar (see Ghost Rider)
The Angel
Black Cat (ok that wasn't Stan :)
The could battle 1950s Electro.
I'm betting there's more, but that's what I came up with of the top of my head.
Remember when the Riddler himself tried the "hidden bombs with a deadline" idea in Manchester, Alabama, to challenge Impulse... and Impulse, to the Riddler's annoyance, just ignored whatever clues Nygma had offered and simply ran around at super-speed to check every potential location --and bring all ofthe bombs back to the Riddler -- in just a few panels?
ReplyDelete:D
I bet Steve Ditko's Killjoy would've loved that story. :-)
ReplyDeleteCarycomic said...
ReplyDelete"I bet Steve Ditko's Killjoy would've loved that story. :-)"
Now there is an interesting character wgo [AFAIK] hasn't appeared here yet... Who would you match him with? I think that he could get on surprisingly well [by superheroic standards] with the Punisher, or even the Comedian...
The Punisher? Maybe. But, only as an ally of convenience against the Joker. The Comedian? I'd rather see him as a Black Lantern in cahoots with Ernie Fairchild's former sidekick, Smiley the Evil Lapel Button. Preferably arrayed against Los Primos Reyes! Jaime (Blue Beetle 3.0) and Robbie (Ghost Rider 4.0).
ReplyDeleteOn second thought, Ross could save that second suggestion for Nov. 2.
ReplyDeleteFrank Gorshin was great in the Batman tv series but he would have been my choice to play the Joker.
ReplyDelete